Part F: Pre/Post Workout Nutrition
On Pre workout meals
What does your ideal pre-workout meal consist of?
Really depends upon several factors… what is optimal for me might not be for you. What it consists of depends upon multiple factors
-total pro/carb/fat intake for the day
-length of workout
-intensity of workout
-how long before your workout do you eat?
for me, depending upon what bodypart I work (legs are much more difficult) I eat around 30-40g protein/70-100g Carbs pre workout (mix of slow/moderate/ & fast digesting) and I try to keep fat under 10g. I eat this about 1-2 hours preworkout.
On Preworkout meals:
Hey Layne, I just had a question on what you think of preworkout meals. I read alot of stuff by “so called experts” claiming you should eat within 3 hours of training because you can’t have blood going to your muscles and digestive system at the same time. But i’ve done this just to see how the workout felt and i didn’t like it at all. My muscles were flat and i just felt sluggish. I usually eat a good protein/carb meal about 30 minutes before i train and that’s when i feel the best. My muscles are full, and i feel very pumped and energetic. What’s your take on this Layne?
so called experts is right! That’s a straight up nonsense notion. preworkout nutrition is just as important as post. Have your preworkout meal
do you ever take in high gi carbs pre workout?
I do take high GI carbs preworkout if I don’t have time to get in a good meal, otherwise I don’t purposefully take in sugary carbs preworkout
Got a question Layne.
For the pre-workout meal (which is about 100-110 g Carbs for me), which is the better scenario?
1) eat all the carbs 1.25 – 1.75 hours pre-workout and then 15-30 minutes before, have a shake of BCAAs and citrulline malate
2) eat 3/4 of the carbs 1.25 – 1.75 hours pre-workout and then 15-30 minutes before, have a shake of 1/4 of the carbs (in the form of oats and dextrose, mostly oats; only like 8 g dextrose), BCAAs, and citrulline malate
I’ve been doing scenario 2 for some time and i think its unnecessary to have carbs that close to the workout. And if i start doing scenario 1, whats the best time to have that shake to reap benefit of citrulline malate… right before workout, T-minus 15 min, or T-minus 30 min??
Honestly, I think either one is fine.
Layne. I am a competitive athlete (baseball) and starting monday we will be having weights @ 6am (intense olympic lifts and complexes) as well as practice @ 2pm. What would be something I could eat when I wake up @ 5 30 that will be quick and provide sufficient energy to lift? I will sip ~ 6-8 scoops Xtend during training if that matters.
i would say some whey with dry oatmeal & a bannana into a blender and add cinnamon & PB.
On Peanut butter in PWO shakes:
Layne, What’s your take on my postwork out drink? I’m not cutting. My postwork out drink consists of 50g of isolate whey protein, 2 tbsp peanut butter, and 2tbsp of maltodextrin.
I would drop the peanut butter as aformentioned that will slow digestion; save the PB for later.
On dextrose in PWO shakes
I want to start putting some weight back on and bringing my strength back up. So the first thing I wanted to do was add a P/WO shake back into the diet. I used to like using Good old ON Whey pro (2 scoops), dextrose (bout 75 grams). I would like to go back to that again and toss in some Creatine mono. I would throw in 10 grams of that to each shake. Any other suggestions or modifications? 1 scoop of pro? less dex? anything? or does that sound good. I’ll be keeping the rest of my day pretty low carb, I just figure post w/o is a good place to start introducing more.
well how much dextrose you add really depends upon several factors such as how long your workouts are & how much volume they have as well as how much you weigh and how many carbs you have preworkout. Also, how soon after your shake is your next meal with complex carbs? sorry for all the questions; I just like to get a good idea before doling out information.
On whole food consumption after a PWO drink
Layne, how about if 45 min to an hour after post workout shake you are not hungry. Do I stuff food down? Is this normal?
I would certainly try to get some food in yes
Comments on a PWO drink
What is best taken post workout? I take one banana + 1 cup of oats + 5 grams leucine + 30 grams of whey protein isolate. Is this okay? I have read that a combination of high GI and low GI is recommended. But also heard someone say that glycogen levels post workout arent depleted after working out as we used to think. So we don’t need high GI like dextrose or malto to bump our glycogen levels. What do you think?
What you are doing is fine
On night time PWO meals :
I soon start a clinical in which I have to drive about an hour and a half to and from and thus my workout will not start till about 7 o’clock. I am following the guidelines for your precontest diet and want to know if you think I should do anything different as far as the post-workout meal with the low glycemic carbs being that I would be going to sleep shortly thereafter.
Stick with your normal post workout meal… i workout at night too, eat carbs before bed… it’s fine
On differences between PWO carb sources
1 more thing… In your workout shake you recommend dex or malto, would Waxy Maize/Vitargo be as good? I ask because I have WM left over from the winter, wanted to use it up. If dex/malto is better, just say so, I’ll buy some I’m not a cheapskate =P
No, I don’t think any of them are nessecarily better than the others
On Carbs before/during/after training:
What is your view on carbs pre during and after training ? I see you like 20 to 30 grams after training. But now there are also lots of views on pre and during workout (fast) carbs ? WMS and vitargo are getting very popular you think they are better than malto or dextrose ?
20-30 immediately PWO; but about 20 minutes later i have about 100g of moderately fast digesting carbs.
I have about 75-100g preworkout as well during bulking
On Layne’s Personal PWO shake
What are you using for a workout shake these days? do you still have an endless supply of substance, or do you do something else?
3 scoops xtend
20-30g dex or waxy maize
1g beta alanine
When you are cutting do you follow the cut diet principles for the shake?
when cutting I have 15g bcaa, 10-20g dextrose, 3-5g creatine… pretty similar to what i do in the offseason
On during workout shakes:
Are you still using a during workout shake of dextrose and BCAAs?
na, I usually just do a post workout shake w/ BCAAs & dex/waxymaize
At one point you were, correct? Any particular reason you stopped?
yes I was. just found that if my preworkout & post workout nutrition were on point I really didn’t need it
On WMS in PWO shake:
Hey Layne, I just picked up Some Waxy Maize Startch today and was wondering about how to put it into my post workout nutrition. I’m a somewhat high volume guy, workouts lasting 60-75min. Then I do 10-15 minutes of cardio post workout… I’d been drinking a BCAA/creatine drink during my cardio in the past, and sometimes at the end of the workout if it was onthe long side. Should I just throw the BCAA’s and Creatine in the the Waxy Maize and wait until after the cardio is finished, chug that, and then drink my whey shake ont he drive home? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks dude.
I would do the WMS with the creatine/bcaa drink after your workout before cardio
Comments on carb source in a PWO shake:
I adopted your BCAA, 25g dextrose, and creatine PWO strategy and i follow that up with 100+ oat carbs with whey about 20 min later. Is 20 min too little time to wait? whats the ideal time to wait between those 2 meals?
what is your source for the 100g of carbs
its a blended dry rolled oatmeal shake with whey. then an hour to 1.5 hours after that i eat a whole meal but with less carbs. sounds solid to me
On PWO shakes during a Cut:
For an endo/meso type, what are your thoughts on post workout carbs while cutting, like dextrose and WMS? Or should one keep blood sugar low and just have food after?
I think a small amount of simple carbs post workout is fine 15-25g, and then get the rest from whole foods
On recommended amount of sugar in PWO shakes:
Layne, im 17 and, I have a small question about post workout supps. I take protein and cell tech postworkout, in a shake with pineapple juice, and two servings of yogurt. (im trying to bulk, im 6’4″, and its hard to add mass). There is approx. a SHITLOAD of sugar in the shake, between the yogurt and Cell tech. How much sugar do you recommend post.
well it varies depending on multiple factors but in general i wouldn’t go over 50g
You are the first person on this thread that I’ve ever seen tell someone to limit the SUGAR pwo to 50g where as every other piece of advice was to send blood sugar through the roof.
Well if you are young (under 18) and meso/ecto then maybe 75g may be helpful but in general insulin is not an anabolic hormone in non-growing adults. It does have a synergistic effect with protein however on protein synthesis, but it doesn’t take a ridiculous amount. As far as restoring glycogen goes, sugar will do it faster, but whole food will also do it, it will just take a bit longer.
On Leucine in PWO shakes:
I know this is has been talked about here but wanted to be sure this is ok. Taking 10G of pure Leucine with PWO Whey shake (not all 3 BCAAs free form) wont through off the balance of amino acids in the body? I mean the idea is to spike protein synthesis by spiking Leucine levels but I think you said you need the other aminos to “process” the Leucine. The reason I ask this I can get bulk L-Leucine cheaper than bulk BCAAs. I think I’m going to put it into capsules (000 or 00).
I think 10g leucine probably overkill… i think 5-7g is plenty. You should be ok so long as you are eating a high protein diet otherwise
On Milos Sarcev during workout shakes:
I was wondering what your opinion is on Milos sarcev’s theory of Shake comprised of EAA’s and BCAA’s with a carb source during the workout…which he says is the most anabolic time of day…ne comments or ideas of how this would be true or not?
Honestly, the shake he recommends is way way way overkill
I have a question for you regarding Post-Workout Nutrition. I am currently taking Universal Torrent PWO, but would like to make my own blend now. I am thinking about using Primaforce Carb Slam (2scoops=60grams). With 9 grams EAA’s, 35-40 grams Whey Protein Isolate, and 2 grams Citrulline Mallate. I was also thinking of adding in 5 grams of creatine monohydrate. If you could help me out with my PWO blend I would greatly appreciate your input. And if you have any other suggestions on additions or subtractions please let me know. I weigh 185 Pounds.
i think that’s a solid blend but I would replace the EAAS with BCAAs (5-10g) and would also add a gram or two of beta-alanine. that would be SOLID
On Protein sources for PWO shakes:
If absorption doesn’t matter like people think i.e. its not life and death pwo, why do people SWEAR by Whey (and no other protein). In theory could any protein be used post. I’m thinking of doing for cost reasons 2 servings of WHEY concentrate 15 + Gemma Protein Isolate 12 + 3 L-Leucine (based on Trueprotein’s custom mix) as my new PWO over my old Whey Isolate 40 G + some BCAAs. Then a full meal 30-60 later. I just wanted to make sure with an expert its ok overthe gold standard preached of 40+ G of Whey PWO + BCAA 5-10G
I think protein source is less important, especially considering you are taking leucine on top of that
On carbohydrate intake with Protein Post workout
Troubleshooting Foam in PWO shake
Anyways, here’s my question, I bring my PWO shake with me to the gym so the powder is already in it and then I fill up the shake with about 12-14 ounces of water. As I’m finishing the shake there is prob like 2-4 ounces of foam. Is this the wazy maize? Should I be concerned about not getting whatever that foam is down?? Anyway to fix this problem?
Mix it up ahead of time and keep it in the fridge; and no, it will not go ‘bad’
On having 2 PWO meals:
Whats your take on the idea of 2 post workout “meals”? some people take 25-50G of carbs with BCAA or CEE and then 20-30 mins later they take X amount of protein then wait an hour and get in a solid food meal. I guess being “traditional” or whatever one wants to call it, i always thought you put it all together in one “meal” i.e. BCAA, CEE, carbs, protein. then an hour later go and have your solid meal. is there any research or studies that benefit one over the other.
i think it’s fine, then again don’t make it too complex, just hitting the #s is most important