• BioLayne Video Log 7 – Debating Intelligently and Thinking for Yourself (Part Deux)

    Posted In: Nutrition  /  Posted On: 10.16.12

    A video log in response to the positive and negative comments I’ve received regarding my research and my 5th video blog (Think for Yourself).  Also information about protein distribution included

    Edit Update:  Almost as if he read my mind, Dr. Stuart Phillips just published new study showing that 4 20g feedings of protein were superior to 2 40g feedings of protein. This is almost exactly what I discussed in the video log when talking about protein distribution. http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/9/1/91/abstract

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000793770669 Mike Cellucor

      The bubbles get burst, and the hate starts to brew, lol. Great vids Layne, been a fan since old school Mind and Muscle days…=-)

      Part Deux reminded me of Par Deus, hehe

      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        thanks, glad you are enjoying!

    • http://pablogarciaojo.wordpress.com Pablo

      So far, Intermittent Fasting and Paleo Diet have offered me good results. I am not competing, but seeing the results I would recommend them. What do you think about Paleo for bodybuilders, and do you know any research on diet depending on different blood groups?? Really confuse with the latter, I would thank you so much your opinion about it. Regards

    • John Obelenus

      I find it very odd that IF is being measured on its ability to maximize muscle mass. IF’s stated explicit goal is very opposite. It is going to let you build plenty of muscle, but are you going to be Arnold huge? Perhaps not. But are you going to get and maintain the low body fat percentages the program is **designed to achieve** ?? Yea. As I commented on the 5th vlog IF doesn’t ever restrict protein intake either. It always maximizes protein intake, while limiting carb intake. $0.02

      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        Ok, but many people who are bodybuilders ask me about it and many competitors ask me about it, so that’s why I pointed that out. My question is, exactly why are many people who follow IF so upset about that? What exactly was so terrible about what was said? And as I said previously, the problem is not total protein intake, but rather distribution

    • Frank

      I would love to hear an intelligent debate between you and Martin Berkhan and I’m sure you could arrange that minus the chatter of the internet armchair commenters. Even some of the comments I’ve read from you on your Twitter page are/were fairly inflammatory too. And I understand it’s a natural response to being attacked by a bunch of people, which is unfortunate but ultimately, science and bodybuilding suffered without the discussion. I think intermittent fasting and Martin’s methods are valid but would love a real discussion, not a Twitter feud. I think it could be incredibly instructive to dissect the studies on both sides and get a sense of what is optimal for muscle retention and leaning out. Hopefully you guys agree to a debate. Certainly if Republicans and Democrats can do it, and Creationists and Scientists can do it, you guys can too. Great site by the way and please know, not everyone that likes Martin Berkhan dislikes you. Best.

      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        I never insulted him. I never said IF sucked. Like I said, I’m not going to debate with people who insult as their first response.

    • ProudDaddy

      I am astounded that anyone with half an adult brain could submit that your views on protein distribution, and indirectly IF, have no merit. If there are ANY studies showing that IF increases muscle hypertrophy in experienced strength trainees, the references must be hidden in the for-sale-only books of the proponents.

      That said, I use IF to lose some extremely unhealthy visceral fat and can only hope that a 6 hour feeding window with 2 high protein meals and regular strength training will minimize muscle loss. Without IF, I have a huge problem staying hypocaloric due to the way my particular hunger system works. However, once my visceral fat goal has been reached, I’ll be adding back a high protein breakfast for muscle hypertrophy.

      For those that disagree, please show me all the studies that indicate that per-meal muscle hypertrophy does not reach a maximum value beyond which additional protein ingestion (or infusion, for that matter) has no effect. And please only show me studies which use a sufficient threshold of protein per feeding (which could be as much as 40g for old farts like me).

      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        And you know what, if it works for you that’s totally cool. You’ll never hear me say that you shouldn’t use it. I’m always just trying to put things in the context of ‘optimal’

        • Roshan Joshua

          Like the poster above, I use IF while I’m cutting and from my personal observations over time IF cannot help gain muscle mass the way a traditional meal system with even protein distribution over the day can.

          Layne, I’m curious about your opinion on IF vs traditional bodybuilder cutting diet for fat loss and simultaneous muscle mass preservation. Any input would be appreciated as I’ve always wondered if I’m doing the optimal cutting process (I get results on both IF and traditional cutting diets, just not sure yet which one is better).

    • John

      Forgive me as I am a more recent follower of your work and haven’t had the opportunity to delve into all of your existing blog and YouTube content yet. But as a general guideline how much (or in this case how little) time do feel there should be between meals (feedings) of ~25g protein feedings to optimize muscle synthesis. Obviously the LG approach to IF with the 6 hour feeding window is structured for 2 meals but could a “best of both worlds scenario” be created in which meals could be spaced in that window. I’d assume your answer is that is too short a window but it could be of particular interest to women as if I’m not mistaken IF advocates feel they can get away with a 16/8 regimen and therefore might be more feasible.

      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        I think 4-5 hours between protein feedings is probably best IMO. you can still do IF for your carb intake and just consume all your carb intake in a 6 hour window if you like and I think you will still get those same benefits. HIgh protein low carb diets/meals seem to upregulate the same genes (glucogeneogenesis, fat oxidation, etc) that fasting does.

        • John

          Thanks for the reply. Not sure if you’ve seen this study & analysis that was published with coincidental timing concerning my question above:

          Some interesting discussion in the comments.

        • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

          yup, i’ve seen it and agree with it. Because the 8×10 will not hit the threshold at any one time. But Stuart phillips just did a study where they fed 40g x 2 meals or 20g x 4 meals and showed 20g X 4 meals was better for whole body protein synthesis. So looks like the optimal is multiple meals that hit the threshold to stimulate muscle protein synthesis (kind of like I’ve been saying for the last 5 years or so ;)

    • Kevin Watson

      This isn’t a great comparison but this study contradicts that one a bit.

      I’m curious what your thoughts are on the differences?


      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        Interesting. I think being malnourished changes the game a bit and they mentioned in the abstract that elderly have a more difficult timing getting AAs into the blood and even if you get them past the digestive tract the elderly are less sensitive to the anabolic stimulus of amino acids. So could be another case of not enough amino acids at the spread meals to hit the threshold, though total protein intake was greater than the other study, but again I think the malnourished status may change things. Interesting reference.

    • Alex

      Do you have a link you could give for that IF study that you discussed reviewing in the video?

      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        which one? I discussed a few. Thanks

        • Alex

          The study you received from the woman that requested feedback on.

        • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

          ok I’m really not following here?

        • Alex

          I never could quite catch the full name, but I believe her last name was Lee.

    • Jeppe Olsen

      What about carb distribution, is your take on that equal to your take on protein ?

      Great points in your video btw. There is no need to get agressive, politness is an art !

      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        I actually think that carb timing is probably less important with the caveat that I think you should distribute your carbs around your activity and activity level

        • grg

          what about fat distribution?

    • http://www.teamperformancex.com David Jeffries

      Hey Layne, another awesome VLog! I don’t know when you will ask for questions for your next VLog, but I would love to hear discussion on artificial sweeteners. They seem to be the easiest target for a lot of “health”-minded people. I know you use them and would love you scientific opinion. Keep up the great work and thanks for everything you do.

      • http://www.biolayne.com Layne Norton

        I may touch on those… definitely a topic that is misunderstood

    • Joey C

      Please disregard my comment on the fasting question I searched a little harder and found my answer. Thank you for all of the great information! I also follow suppversity I love the scientific proof and analysis.